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Lt Zealotic

Give me my 1200 MS points back or actually HELP US, BEHEMOTH

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@Mems:

I might have exaggerated with that example, I do apologize but it was the first comparison that came up on my mind.

On another note, of course dan didn't yell "OMG IF THEY MISTAKE WE CAN TOO", I never said he did. However, he did imply that for him (it seems) it's ok to mess up if it's not just you.

No one is losing sleep over this, just because I post on a forum doesn't mean I do nothing else.

@Mad Fiddler:

Like I said, I'm not angry at all, and almost never have been. I can't hate the Behemoth, I don't. I'm just sad, and that's that.

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Guest arkile
Yeah. I had a way better post than this but I accidentally hit "Cancel" instead of "Submit". So I'll condense this.

A had a level 54 Red Knight, and a level 35 Alien. I also had a level 12 Barbarian but I don't really care about him. I had all of the Animal Orbs, 75% of the weapons and I had finished almost all of the arenas (except for the Eskimo Arena).

Recently my Xbox RROD'd. (Typical of Micro$oft to release an unfinished, crappy product, huh?) So I got a new one (my 3rd one). For some reason I lost all of my data, and I thought it was odd because data saves on Gamertag, not Hard Drive. And when I mean "all of my data," I mean ALL OF IT. My unlocked characters, Animal Orbs, weapons, and my mission data.

"No worries," I think. It was only two weeks of my life, right? I'll just do it again.

I couldn't be more wrong.

So, I tried to start a new save. I went Blue Knight, because I liked the Jump combo. I got to level 16 and I went to bed. The next time I went on... Nope. All four standard Knights, at level 1. About a week later, I decide to give it a try. Green Knight. I got to level 21, went to bed, rinsed, washed... Level 1! Yaaay.

So... seriously. Fix this, please. Two months ago you released a blog post saying "Title Update coming!" That was September. It's halfway through November, four and a half months since Behemoth released this game. I like this game. I honestly do, it's better than some of the retail games that cost $50 and $60 bucks. So why don't you actually listen to your loyal fanbase? Well, I don't know about loyal anymore. So many of us have lost our hard-earned data, I honestly feel like I never spent my money for a repeating cycle of boredom and frustration.

Well, I don't think I condensed this at all, actually.

Getting on that subject it's happening to me making the game unplayable and I tried deleting CC and my xbox live account all together to no avail :(. Atleast you people can enjoy the single player aspects of the game :S I guess if an Xbox has hardware failure all data tied to it for some strange reason is deleted even though an Xbox doesn't hold memory the hardrive does. On a different subject any games,maps, updates that cost Ms points are tied to the account they were downloaded to I have achievements in Alien Hominid but it was downloaded on another account and is still on my harddrive but it's a trial along with Sonic 1 and 2 bomberman and other arcade games it's frustrating. Microsoft is a monster with no sympathy for it's customers > : (

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Guest Apollo
Christ, I wish I could return my Gears of War 2 as well, since the multiplayer matchmaking system is basically broken. But sadly, the "No Returns" policy the industry hides behind strikes again. At least with Epic, they provide an FAQ of their known issues and a tentative patch release schedule...

Que sera sera.

Yeah, if only the game industry was that simple. Make a game, put it out, every developer is on the same playing field, right? But alas..

XBLA is a different division than retail market products. There are very different rulesets for each. They are tended to by different groups of people. There is an XBLA team and a retail market team. This is where the external differences you're noticing come into play.

So, a big company and a small company both had online issues with their games. What does that tell you?

Hey, if it makes you feel better to say that you can screw up as much as the big guys (or is it that the big guys can screw up as much as you?) than kudos for you. I mean, I guess it's somewhat comforting knowing that we're all equal-opportunity screwers of the general purchasing public. But before we get too excited, can I at least point out that there's hundreds of other games each year that are released and their online was playable? Going back a decade... on the PC, where developers also had to deal with juggling network code across multiple PC configurations?

Another gripe about Epic - they manage to release patches that actually make the experience worse. Good for them.

Just let me know when I can finally play Castle Crashers as it was intended 3 months ago. Hopefully sometime before the sequel. Thanks.

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No one at the Behemoth is saying its OK that there are problems. We have acknowledged them, and have been killing ourselves getting this all resolved. All we are trying to do is help explain the situation when people don't have the facts. And sometimes that includes mentioning other examples form other companies.

Also, we haven't criticized people who have complained. You have every right to be frustrated! We are frustrated too! But we do have an obligation to correct you if you missquote us, or just don't have the facts. responding to a complaint is not the same as insulting the person who made it.

I think its clear that we have been going out of our way to communicate with people, and address individual concerns. That's why threads like this are great- so we can have a dialogue about what's going on!

:arrow:

kelly

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Hey, if it makes you feel better to say that you can screw up as much as the big guys (or is it that the big guys can screw up as much as you?) than kudos for you. I mean, I guess it's somewhat comforting knowing that we're all equal-opportunity screwers of the general purchasing public. But before we get too excited, can I at least point out that there's hundreds of other games each year that are released and their online was playable? Going back a decade... on the PC, where developers also had to deal with juggling network code across multiple PC configurations?

Another gripe about Epic - they manage to release patches that actually make the experience worse. Good for them.

Just let me know when I can finally play Castle Crashers as it was intended 3 months ago. Hopefully sometime before the sequel. Thanks.

Anybody watched that program on the BBC called Grumpy Old Men?

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Hey, if it makes you feel better to say that you can screw up as much as the big guys (or is it that the big guys can screw up as much as you?) than kudos for you. I mean, I guess it's somewhat comforting knowing that we're all equal-opportunity screwers of the general purchasing public. But before we get too excited, can I at least point out that there's hundreds of other games each year that are released and their online was playable? Going back a decade... on the PC, where developers also had to deal with juggling network code across multiple PC configurations?

Another gripe about Epic - they manage to release patches that actually make the experience worse. Good for them.

Just let me know when I can finally play Castle Crashers as it was intended 3 months ago. Hopefully sometime before the sequel. Thanks.

Anybody watched that program on the BBC called Grumpy Old Men?

lets stay on topic here. thanks!

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I wonder if the NXE coming out effected the patch?

absolutely not, they had nothing to do with it (dan designed the premium theme, but we came to the conclusion that it didn't affect the TU)

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you're hiding behind the failure of others to justify yours, as you ahve been doing ever since the very first problems popped up.
Don't think that you're allowed to f up because others do too
Hiding behind the failure of others is ludicrous and immature, nuff said.
All your hiding behind the weirdest things, never taking any blame at all, and criticizing people that rightfully complain for not getting what they paid for is just too much for me.
you messed up on your game and none of you is willing to admit it, I find that as immature and unprofessional as possible.
you've crossed the line

it's a bummer that you are speaking about us this way. the only real response appropriate would be that it is not true. however, if you are already of the mindset that we are dodging things a response such as that would probably seem insufficient. i can't change your mind but i offer you this:

my first sentence and first post of this thread on page 1 is "sorry. it's on its way". if you think that might be not admitting anything or being immature/unprofessional/hiding/etc then that is your own choice. regarding my later post, kelly summed it up nicely - thanks kellster.

try to keep the slinging to a low or offer some kind of constructive comments next time please so we may both have something more uplifting to read or write, okay? happy holidays! ^_^

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This is ridiculous. When I bought this game it didnt even cross through my mind it might have co-op. I spent 15$ just expecting a radballs game and I got just that. I probably spent 30 hours playing by myself and it was still awesome. I dont need 3 more people that would just clutter the screen. People expect every damn game now to have online multiplayer and 20 man co-op even in games that shouldn't like Bioshock. Gamers are getting their own hopes up too quick.

And for the patch, just dont play the damn game if it makes you mad there's no patch. And when it cones out play again so the game won't feel old or woreout. I know when the patch comes out I'll be doing some co-op.

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Yeah. I had a way better post than this but I accidentally hit "Cancel" instead of "Submit". So I'll condense this.

A had a level 54 Red Knight, and a level 35 Alien. I also had a level 12 Barbarian but I don't really care about him. I had all of the Animal Orbs, 75% of the weapons and I had finished almost all of the arenas (except for the Eskimo Arena).

Recently my Xbox RROD'd. (Typical of Micro$oft to release an unfinished, crappy product, huh?) So I got a new one (my 3rd one). For some reason I lost all of my data, and I thought it was odd because data saves on Gamertag, not Hard Drive. And when I mean "all of my data," I mean ALL OF IT. My unlocked characters, Animal Orbs, weapons, and my mission data.

"No worries," I think. It was only two weeks of my life, right? I'll just do it again.

I couldn't be more wrong.

So, I tried to start a new save. I went Blue Knight, because I liked the Jump combo. I got to level 16 and I went to bed. The next time I went on... Nope. All four standard Knights, at level 1. About a week later, I decide to give it a try. Green Knight. I got to level 21, went to bed, rinsed, washed... Level 1! Yaaay.

So... seriously. Fix this, please. Two months ago you released a blog post saying "Title Update coming!" That was September. It's halfway through November, four and a half months since Behemoth released this game. I like this game. I honestly do, it's better than some of the retail games that cost $50 and $60 bucks. So why don't you actually listen to your loyal fanbase? Well, I don't know about loyal anymore. So many of us have lost our hard-earned data, I honestly feel like I never spent my money for a repeating cycle of boredom and frustration.

Well, I don't think I condensed this at all, actually.

Just play onther game to ocupy you while you wait for the tu.tHE tu lanch is controlled by microsoft.

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@Dan: Happy holidays to you too. Also, I don't think you need to post pillage me when tehre are people offering constructive comments like "just play something else".

Yea, very helpful and constructive indeed.

That said, if anyone wants some examples (good and bad) of microsoft cert process, I'm gonna go ahead and quote Jeff's comment on the devblog, thanks for all your research Jeff.

Now here’s some other XBLA titles that have had online issues, save game issues, general issues and have had no patches or even a single word from a developer in regards to their game issues. I’ve included links to their respective forum posts as well.

Looks like in general games are buggy and developers either take a few weeks or a few months to patch their title. Some are very communicative (i personally feel behemoth is) and others don’t say a word. Here’s the list and for that guy that was saying “support your claims” how is this for support?

1942 Joint Strike - Game freezes randomly. Online issues NO patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/21692276/ShowPost.aspx

Kingdom for Keflings - Game crash, developer looking into it. No title update announced.

http://forums.xbox.com/24375329/ShowPost.aspx

Aces of the Galaxy - VERY large list of issues. No patch announced

http://forums.xbox.com/928/ShowForum.aspx

Alien Hominid HD - Missing Sounds, 1 Achievement not working - Patch finished in 2 months.

http://forums.xbox.com/13905810/ShowPost.aspx

Are you Smarter than a 5th Grader? - Online Disconnect Issues. No patch announced

http://forums.xbox.com/23691431/ShowPost.aspx

Assault Heroes - Multiplayer does not work at all. No patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/8956418/ShowPost.aspx

Band of Bugs - Online freezing. No patch

http://forums.xbox.com/13398092/ShowPost.aspx

Battlezone - Multiplayer lock-ups. NO patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/19749273/ShowPost.aspx

Bejeweled 2 - Game save issue. No patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/24590343/ShowPost.aspx

Bomberman Live - Network Ranked Match Issues - NO patch

http://forums.xbox.com/24166344/ShowPost.aspx

Braid - Save issue on other consoles. NO patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/22213552/ShowPost.aspx

Carcassonne - Can’t complete the game. Ranked and Player match issues. No Patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/22213552/ShowPost.aspx

Castle Crashers - Data loss, online MP not working properly. Patch announced and in progress (3 months)

NO real link as we’re all aware they are working on it.

Catan - Glitched Achievements. No Patch

http://forums.xbox.com/24623537/ShowPost.aspx

Chessmaster LIVE - In-game issue with loading certain messages. NO patch

http://forums.xbox.com/852/ShowForum.aspx

Commanders: Attack of the Genos - Glitched Achievement. Patched in 3 months

http://forums.xbox.com/20171326/ShowPost.aspx

Double D DOdgeball - Game was pulled from service because of crippling bugs and then re-launched.

http://forums.xbox.com/21519320/ShowPost.aspx

Double Dragon - Game Slow Down at random levels. No patch

http://forums.xbox.com/18472100/ShowPost.aspx

Duke Nukem 3D - Severe online lag issues . No patch

http://forums.xbox.com/22910122/ShowPost.aspx

Fatal Fury Special - Random Game Issues - Patched in 1.5 months

http://forums.xbox.com/18387454/ShowPost.aspx

Hardwood Hearts - Online freezing. No Patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/24530224/ShowPost.aspx

Jetpac Refuelled. Patched in 2 months.

http://forums.xbox.com/11431971/ShowPost.aspx

Jewel Quest - Save game issue. No patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/18054003/ShowPost.aspx

Mr. Driller Online - ENOURMOUS Online Issues. 1 month patch time

http://forums.xbox.com/18054003/ShowPost.aspx

RoboBlitz - In-Game Issue. Boss Glitch. No Patch.

http://forums.xbox.com/10245660/ShowPost.aspx

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That said, if anyone wants some examples (good and bad) of microsoft cert process, I'm gonna go ahead and quote Jeff's comment on the devblog, thanks for all your research Jeff.

Good find, I didn't even know some of these games have glitches, but I wouldn't test these games out like transferring my HDD to another console to find them out.

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Guest madman421

Actually the double dragon slow down thing isn't a glitch it did that when i used to play it in the arcade back in the day, so i'd call it a perfect port of the arcade original.

But good find Jeff

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Guest Apollo

I guess the base of my frustration comes from the fact that I've been playing videogames for 20+ years now, I grew up on them starting with the 2600, and it pains me to see this industry shooting itself in the foot on a consistent basis. I don't think that companies, for the most part, release games that having glaring issues (but I may just be naive... I'm sure some do, just to get a product out the door). However, I do think many companies have gotten lazy with QA knowing that even if a product isn't 100% tested and certified, that as long as there are no major show-stopping bugs, release now and patch later becomes the mantra.

It's happening far too often, and I think eventually the industry will get major blowback from the consumers if it keeps up. Personally speaking, I know I won't be purchasing Gears of War 3 when it comes out. They've committed the 4-pronged cardinal sin: released a buggy game, poor customer service (limited discussions with consumers regarding their patch path), released a patch that was supposed to fix problems and didn't, AND released for-pay MP DLC while their MP is essentially unusable for the majority of the players.

I'm interested to see when the first class-action lawsuit will be against the industry for their "no returns" policy. It's a sham when they can get away with defective products and hide behind this policy... I can't think of any other industry off-hand where this is acceptable. Even if you go into a movie theater and the film is unplayable, the theater will give you a refund.

I'm also tired of the defenders (generally fanpersons who for whatever strange reason feel the need to protect their fandom with all their being) who have the gall to suggest that the way they play the game is the right way and those who complain should shut up. Really, we should all be pressing the industry to make sure that a game works AS ADVERTISED - meaning, if it has an online component, that component works. I'm sure some of the folk who keep saying "I play 30 hours by myself" would be just a tad bit upset if by some fluke only the online portion of CC worked, no? It's not like we purchased the game knowing that it was off-line multiplayer only, and then started bitching that it doesn't have online. I paid for online.

With regards to CC, it's a great game no doubt, but obviously intended to be played with friends - both online and off. It's a shame that a huge chunk of the the game is unplayable, and I will wait until the patch comes out to fully realize its potential. But I think it's fair to say that a 3-month wait is a bit absurd at this point - it makes me wonder what percentage of resources are working on the patch development, and how much of a financial impact this will have on the company, if any.

/rant over

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Good job Apollo, I think you did well in expressing and explaining the origins of the frustration gamers like me and you are feeling. I rarely see someone express themselves that well around here, good job.

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I downloaded the game the day it was released, after following the hype for a year. To this date, I have not been able to play a multiplayer session of this game. Period. I eventually just gave up after weeks of trying, and I saw that a patch was on the way. Great.

It's still not here. I understand you are a small company, and the game is otherwise great, but frankly I expect something more than simply making the software I purchased work after all of this. I have essentially pre-paid you for the promise of a future-working game. These arguments about how we are getting more characters or weapons or this or that does not sway me. This stuff was coming anyway, and it is not the type of thing I consider making amends for this. I paid full-price for what I consider to be less than half of what I expected it to be. Those of us who purchased this game while in the dark of these crippling bugs after doing our due dilligence deserve something more. If I buy a box of cereal infested with bugs, you better believe General Mills isn't sending me a second copy of the toy in the box.

The fact that it went unnoticed on dev machines shows you why others run closed and open betas, and even if it then was still unnoticed, that you didn't know isn't a defense to its existence.

I understand you can't just give me my money back in exchange for the digital download, but you have to do something. Give me a 600 point refund, I'll accept it. The single player works, even though I bought the game with multiplayer in mind. If you offer me a 50% price reduction, I'll consider that a fair trade, and will say you have fixed the wrong and will sing your praises for being a forward thinking software company who make great games and fix their mistakes. Hell, give me Alien Hominid for free. Do something, anything, other than giving me some more characters when the patch eventually comes, because if that's it, I'll be pissed. When I told friends and family to get this game so we could play it together, only to find out we couldn't, it made me look like an idiot. When a product doesn't perform, you make right with the customer.

You know where to find me.

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Guest madman421

I wish i could be as eloquent as the Apollo, Colino, and Csokn, you guys make the points i wish i could make myself but i get ragey when i think i'm being ripped off. I know i've said some mean stuff on here that maybe i shouldn't have but the fact is that i frickin love this game and was only able to play it for 2 days(i logged about 30hrs in those 2 days)and then my save data dissappeared. another part that pisses me off is i told 4 different people to buy this game so we could have some fun and i felt like i stole their MS points myself. I may not like this company right now but i do love this game it's fun, and i mean good old school fun, there isn't many games like that anymore. But to some up maybe i'll message you guys with my opinions so you can clean them up into non rage filled good points eh.

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(from the blog)

It’s all really frustrating since we can’t be completely open about every little detail that goes back and forth between Microsoft as we’re not supposed to comment on the certification process and what bugs were fixed, and how long everything takes, and every other detail that we’re desperately willing to discuss.

Don't care.

Buggy games are also "not supposed" to be relased.

I'd probably be a lot less pissed and a bit more sympathetic hearing these details you aren't suppose to talk about.

It seems obvious to me that some of the multiplayer game launch problems are caused by players trying to connect to a game that is launching.

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If I buy a box of cereal infested with bugs, you better believe General Mills isn't sending me a second copy of the toy in the box.

This is where I do not completely agree with you.

I've never been here asking for compensation (other than the obvious and expected dlc), because I think that asking for a refund is wrong, even when its minimal. When you downloaded the game, you accepted the terms of use that state that the game is provided to you, AS IS.

I don't agree with the policy, but I had to to buy the game in the first place.

What I'm "fighting" for is not the compensation itself, but the time it's requiring.

In confrontation with other top selling games like CC (let me remind you all that it's been a major success on XBLA, even though for some people it's being sold illegitamately because of false advertisement for the online mode), the patch, considering how severe the problems are, is simply taking too much time.

Even taking account of all the factors in Behemoth's excuse: Small team, Hard certification process, "unexpected" issues, 4 months (now, who knows how many more) is simply too long.

We're here discussing about it because it's a website about the game, but go ahead and checkout any gaming blog that's mentioned Behemoth, you will not find too many positive comments, most people stopped caring.

The thing is, these people already spent their $15, patch or not, Behemoth earned that sale, and if they play the game or not in the future, on an economical standpoint, they don't matter anymore.

This is not to say Behemoth doesn't care about the customers, it's just a negative factor that adds on to the bad rep they've been building in the process.

It's not anger in my personal case, it's sadness. I've stated multiple times how much I loved Behemoth and how much I've supported them since I bought my very first Alien Hominid on the gamecube. But now, even after I buy there new game on day one, and feel my heart warm when I see the thank you note at the end of the game, I'm sad, because there's a thin line between being patient and understanding, and being angry and unforgiving. And everyday, more and more people are crossing that line.

I just hope that everyone here realises that, and acts accordingly. I also hope that Behemoth themselves realise that SOON WONDER WILL BE ACHIEVED, simply cannot translate to "You need to wait another 4 months, at least". Just as every other over hyped and optimistic statement they've been throwing out there.

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(from the blog)

It’s all really frustrating since we can’t be completely open about every little detail that goes back and forth between Microsoft as we’re not supposed to comment on the certification process and what bugs were fixed, and how long everything takes, and every other detail that we’re desperately willing to discuss.

Don't care.

Buggy games are also "not supposed" to be relased.

I'd probably be a lot less pissed and a bit more sympathetic hearing these details you aren't suppose to talk about.

It seems obvious to me that some of the multiplayer game launch problems are caused by players trying to connect to a game that is launching.

I'd like to share a post I made on another topic like this.

They didn't know it was faulty and wouldn't have released it if it was. They're trying their best to get a patch out the door but it takes time. If they didn't care they wouldn't even be on the forums trying to find out the problems.

Quote "Dan: When we went through testing, Microsoft approved all our network code and we had no problems at all."

They're not allowed to go into detail because of MS, and they can't break the rules. I don't know enough information about this to go into detail either.

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MRvister, do you know how old that quote from Dan is?

It doesn't matter who approved what or what didn't pop up in testing, that's long and gone now. The fact is that to fix these issues, it's been taking an excrutiating amount of time.

I think you need to pull up some better points if you're trying to take their defense, there are fanboys around here that did a much better job.

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