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Lt Zealotic

Give me my 1200 MS points back or actually HELP US, BEHEMOTH

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MRvister, do you know how old that quote from Dan is?

It doesn't matter who approved what or what didn't pop up in testing, that's long and gone now. The fact is that to fix these issues, it's been taking an excrutiating amount of time.

I think you need to pull up some better points if you're trying to take their defense, there are fanboys around here that did a much better job.

Yeah I do, but a quote is a quote. I didn't come here to fight you, it's your opinion if you think i'm trying to come to their defence. I don't know anything about the netcode that they used in CC, quite honestly I don't care if someone did a better job than me.

I do think that they could have detected some of the issues though such as switching HDD. There is no denying that.

Also I wasn't directing this towards you.

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MRvister, do you know how old that quote from Dan is?

It doesn't matter who approved what or what didn't pop up in testing, that's long and gone now. The fact is that to fix these issues, it's been taking an excrutiating amount of time.

I think you need to pull up some better points if you're trying to take their defense, there are fanboys around here that did a much better job.

Yeah I do, but a quote is a quote. I didn't come here to fight you, it's your opinion if you think i'm trying to come to their defence. I don't know anything about the netcode that they used in CC, quite honestly I don't care if someone did a better job than me.

Understood, I appreciate your directness and your honesty, you're a rarety gentleman. : )

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Colino, that was unexpected. But for lot of points you have mentioned, I have to agree with you, a beta could have fixed this.. but this has already been discussed.

Goodnight. Happy holidays!

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It's not anger in my personal case, it's sadness.

This is exactly what I am thinking too. I'm sad about the way we don't have enough communication from The Behemoth about this issue involving the length of time it is taking to get the title update ready. I like it when people are not putting down the developers but instead using constructive criticism to show that they actually have the decency to argue in a mature manner.. Anyway, if I had enough knowledge to defend The Behemoth I would, but I don't. To me it seems as if the negatives out-weigh the positives.

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Guest arkile
:D Ok here's how to fix the glitch where you can't save if you get a new console (idk if anyone has found this out yet) just go to xbox.com and sign in click on support and licensing follow the instructions and you should be able to save again worked for me.

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:D Ok here's how to fix the glitch where you can't save if you get a new console (idk if anyone has found this out yet) just go to xbox.com and sign in click on support and licensing follow the instructions and you should be able to save again worked for me.

That's transferring your license to another xbox, I thought everyone would do it when they get a new xbox?

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here's the thing. we are, have been, and will continue to do everything we possibly can to fix these problems as quickly as possible. We can't change the system and can't change the process we have to go through. All we can do is the best work we can, as fast as we can.

Don't you think we are as frustrated by the time delay as you all? Don't you think that if there was ANYTHING we could do to make this go faster, that we are already doing it? We are not an evil company out to screw you. we are a small, hardworking group, working our asses off to fix an unfortunate situation.

yes, other things are going on, like the NXE, and folks like Dan, who are not integral to the Title Update process, have time to work on these things. These are completely separate from the Title Update and have no effect on the time it takes.

I'm not saying you don't have every right to complain. the situation sucks. its true. but saying that we aren't doing anything about it, or that we don't care about the problems, well, it just isn't true.

I also like to encourage people to respond positively to complaints,as many of you have above. point out whats really going on, link to official posts, whatever. It doesn't make sense to get mad at people for being upset about this...

anyway,

:arrow: to everybodies,

kelly

i dont care whats going on, im confident theyll fix it..

btw kelly=best mod EVAR!!!121 one!

just a small suggestion MOD/ADMIN team...

i go to the GearsofWar forums alot, and Epic(<--creators of gears of war and Unreal engine, etc...) used to be a "small hardworking team" then they got rich and stopped posting on theyre own forums and stopped communicating with the fans, they shut us out pretty much, i have to tell you: as long as you continue to do EXACTLY as you are doing now, you will always be successful. Focus on the hardcore fans, the ones that were here before this game got big, before ANY of your games got big (not me necessarily because i just joined the behemoth party recently, and havent been around long enough to be a 'hardcore' fan, but i still support you guys) and no matter how big you get, always act small and you will have no problems making money and selling games.

/endrant

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here's the thing. we are, have been, and will continue to do everything we possibly can to fix these problems as quickly as possible. We can't change the system and can't change the process we have to go through. All we can do is the best work we can, as fast as we can.

Don't you think we are as frustrated by the time delay as you all? Don't you think that if there was ANYTHING we could do to make this go faster, that we are already doing it? We are not an evil company out to screw you. we are a small, hardworking group, working our asses off to fix an unfortunate situation.

yes, other things are going on, like the NXE, and folks like Dan, who are not integral to the Title Update process, have time to work on these things. These are completely separate from the Title Update and have no effect on the time it takes.

I'm not saying you don't have every right to complain. the situation sucks. its true. but saying that we aren't doing anything about it, or that we don't care about the problems, well, it just isn't true.

I also like to encourage people to respond positively to complaints,as many of you have above. point out whats really going on, link to official posts, whatever. It doesn't make sense to get mad at people for being upset about this...

anyway,

:arrow: to everybodies,

kelly

i dont care whats going on, im confident theyll fix it..

btw kelly=best mod EVAR!!!121 one!

just a small suggestion MOD/ADMIN team...

i go to the GearsofWar forums alot, and Epic(<--creators of gears of war and Unreal engine, etc...) used to be a "small hardworking team" then they got rich and stopped posting on theyre own forums and stopped communicating with the fans, they shut us out pretty much, i have to tell you: as long as you continue to do EXACTLY as you are doing now, you will always be successful. Focus on the hardcore fans, the ones that were here before this game got big, before ANY of your games got big (not me necessarily because i just joined the behemoth party recently, and havent been around long enough to be a 'hardcore' fan, but i still support you guys) and no matter how big you get, always act small and you will have no problems making money and selling games.

/endrant

Actually they do still post, they usually say misinformation or just lock a thread they don't like.

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im just surprised it hasnt been locked :roll:

It's not locked because it isn't breaking any rules, and there is some good arguments in here!

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Heck it's my favorite tech thread.

Just wait for Colino to return. He's the one with the well thought out arguments!

Ok, my G9 mouse is starting to annoy me now..

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Guest Apollo

This is where I do not completely agree with you.

I've never been here asking for compensation (other than the obvious and expected dlc), because I think that asking for a refund is wrong, even when its minimal. When you downloaded the game, you accepted the terms of use that state that the game is provided to you, AS IS.

I don't agree with the policy, but I had to to buy the game in the first place.

What I'm "fighting" for is not the compensation itself, but the time it's requiring.

Colino, I think you're right in that we need to "fight". I believe what we, as gamers, need to do is have some sort of industry-wide accepted "Gamers Bill of Rights", because really, we have none right now. As gamers who love this industry as a hobby and a passion, we are basically at the whims of the developers/publishers.

So, on that note, let's attempt to come up with the basic foundation of this bill.

1) Acknowledgement of Product Expectations. If a game is released, it is understood that all aspects of said product that are advertised will work as advertised.

2) Definition of "Defective". People complain. Gamers are a demanding bunch. There should be an agreed upon definition of what "defective" means. Generally, I believe it should be anything that hinders the overall game experience ("broken" code). Gameplay gripes are excluded.

3) Defective Product Handling. If there is part of the product that does not work as intended, than:

3a) Confirmation of Product Defects. The publisher must communicate all known issues within 72 hours of internally confirming the issue exists. This communication will include estimates of impact and estimated time to patch. Initial communication can be via a private message on XBL or PSN, etc... would need how to figure out how to communicate to non-online consumers for hardcopy games.

3b) Followup Consumer Communications. The publisher must make available a distribution group that consumers can opt into and receive updates on progress.

3c) Notification of Known Defects. A disclaimer listing the known issues should be prominently displayed in PSN/XBL "Marketplace", so that people know that the product has known defects BEFORE they purchase it. (This should remove the "I've been scammed!" feeling when the consumer goes online and Googles "Castle Crashers, lag" and sees that lag was acknowledged 4 months ago)

4) Consumer Compensation Clause. Purchasers of defective products who bought the product BEFORE the bug was acknowledged by Clause #3c are eligible for an agreed-upon form of compensation if the product update takes longer than X amount of time (X=1 month?) to release. (The reason I find this necessary is that there is accountability. Bugs happen, sure. But if it takes you more than a month or fix it, than it's most likely a major flaw and not just a "bug". Compensation will be determined by publisher, but should be scaled based on how long the patch release takes. Want to take 4 months to "fix" your game? Go ahead...)

This is just a quick list off the top of my head. Call me crazy, but I think we need something like this. Right now it's basically "Here's our product, we'll hype it up, you'll buy it, you have a 70/30 shot it'll work as you expect it, but if it doesn't, you have no power other than to complain on forums and hope we get a patch to you sometime in the near future, because we know if we release another hyped kick-balloon game you're likely to buy it regardless." By the way - 70/30 will soon be 60/40, then 50/50... "Release now, patch later!" as I like to say.

Even taking account of all the factors in Behemoth's excuse: Small team, Hard certification process, "unexpected" issues, 4 months (now, who knows how many more) is simply too long.

Giving TB the benefit of the doubt and MS really does have non-disclosures that keep publishers from communicating patch paths, I think Microsoft needs to stop dicking around and start being more transparent with what goes on. I mean, their RROD handling has been abysmal and their lack of honesty has lead to a class-action suit they'll most likely lose. (Side Note: I purchase a 1st gen 360 and have never RROD'd. Everyone I know has... but now that I say that, I fully expect my 360 to RR next time I load up. :shock: ).

My point here is that if MS really has these "lock down" requirements for publishers to utilize XBL for patch releases, the publishers need to fight back and protect their own interests. It's in both publisher and MS's interests to make the consumer happy. The finger pointing is shameless at best -- it's equivalent to your little brother punching you and noone seeing so you punch him back and get caught and you say "but he did it first!" -- and could only potentially result in lost revenues for both. Fewer people purchase TheBehemoth's next game because of the CC fiasco, MS gets less of a cut in sales.

I think it's only fair. I mean, by handing over our $5, $15, $60 we are basically under a contract with the publisher... I purchase your game, and your game will function. Right now, the only part of this equation that is definitive is the exchange of money from consumer to publisher that never reverses...

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Guest madman421

Wow you need to have that bill made law. Time to start lobbying you local politicians just try to find someone younger that understands gaming issues. You have my support that is a beautiful piece of writing. Apollo for congress if he's American or for parliment if he's a Canadian.

Behemoth give us a christmas miracle, you know you want too.

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Guest Apollo
Wow you need to have that bill made law. Time to start lobbying you local politicians just try to find someone younger that understands gaming issues. You have my support that is a beautiful piece of writing. Apollo for congress if he's American or for parliment if he's a Canadian.

Behemoth give us a christmas miracle, you know you want too.

My post was more rhetorical than anything else, of course it wouldn't ever become actual law, but it would be nice for the industry to help devise some sort of self-governance .

Check out JetBlue, as US airline carrier... after some horrible PR the past few years, they devised a Customer Bill of Rights. This Bill of Rights is their own customer self-governance guideline. Wouldn't this be something to have in the VG industry? It's a quick read here.

Someone should run for a gov't office on a videogame platform. That would be awesome. Then again they'd probably lose a boatload of votes to the "Videogames are Evil and Should Be Banned" party. :evil:

We also need a poll "Which will come out first - Duke Nukem Forever or the Castle Crasher Patch"? Game on! :twisted:

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It's the best gaming mouse ever made, it's shaped so that your hand is as comfortable as possible and has changeable weight, grip, color and has an extremely high sensitivity. Basically it ownz the poop out if every other mouse ever created, especially those wonderpuff mac mice, f**k I hate macs.

kiddyfiddler fails

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It's in both publisher and MS's interests to make the consumer happy.
Giving TB the benefit of the doubt and MS really does have non-disclosures that keep publishers from communicating patch paths,

If MS really wanted to keep it's consumers happy, they would let us know about the updates.

Check out JetBlue, as US airline carrier... after some horrible PR the past few years, they devised a Customer Bill of Rights. This Bill of Rights is their own customer self-governance guideline. Wouldn't this be something to have in the VG industry? It's a quick read here.

That would be great! Then we could at least have some justice around here. (not saying that TB doesn't try to do their best in informing us, which I'm sure they are!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Off-topic:

It's in both publisher and MS's interests to make the consumer happy.

MS doesn't want to make us happy, they want money. It seems pretty convenient that they allow you to easily purchase MS points and add new payment options onto your xbox. But you can't remove it. Also when you want to try and cancel a gold membership (when you use a credit card on the xbox360 to buy a gold subscription, they "conveniently" make it so it's on auto renewal, and as soon as you want to cancel you have to ring up. They like to constantly ask if you would like to keep your gold account. It's also hard to understand what they're saying because usually it's someone from India that you're talking to!

Also, if I post a picture of my mouse, will you guys stop going so far off-topic that this thread could get locked? Thanks!

G9.jpg

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Anyway, nice post! Microsoft and the developers (not really devs, as Microsoft is kind of in control it seems) really need to change their act by keeping us informed. Which they won't. I'm sure they have their reasons though...

EDIT: I found a few grammar mistakes, sorry. It's late and i'm tired and I didn't even think when writing this post!

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We also need a poll "Which will come out first - Duke Nukem Forever or the Castle Crasher Patch"? Game on! :twisted:

I dunno. I would ask someone immortal to keep the look out for us... XD

On a more serious note, we all agree how MS is NOT the poop and bla bla bla.

In no way I'm trying to defend them, I work for a company that's in the gaming industry and I have to deal with Microsoft's shenanigans all day long because I work in customer service. MS blames everything on the products my company makes, even when everyone knows they're in lawsuits all over the place... -___-

That said, it's easy to blame them for anything. Let's try to be self critic a bit and let everyone take their own responsibilities, in this case, Behemoth is taking responsibility, just not as actively as we would like them too.

I'm sure even the people at TB want to have their holidays and all, but this situation is getting worse everyday, and there lack of communication on the devblog is pretty annoying.

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We also need a poll "Which will come out first - Duke Nukem Forever or the Castle Crasher Patch"? Game on! :twisted:

I dunno. I would ask someone immortal to keep the look out for us... XD

On a more serious note, we all agree how MS is NOT the poop and bla bla bla.

In no way I'm trying to defend them, I work for a company that's in the gaming industry and I have to deal with Microsoft's shenanigans all day long because I work in customer service. MS blames everything on the products my company makes, even when everyone knows they're in lawsuits all over the place... -___-

That said, it's easy to blame them for anything. Let's try to be self critic a bit and let everyone take their own responsibilities, in this case, Behemoth is taking responsibility, just not as actively as we would like them too.

I'm sure even the people at TB want to have their holidays and all, but this situation is getting worse everyday, and there lack of communication on the devblog is pretty annoying.

I MADE THE POLL! CC Patch or Duke Nukem Forever coming out first?

URL: http://forums.thebehemoth.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3427

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I think everybody needs to relax, take a deep breath and chill out.

It's just a game. There is no "worsening situation".

It's.

A.

Game.

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