FenixStryk

Fenix's Unofficial Character TIER LIST v2.1

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With two new characters and much time spent learning the intricacies of each character, I feel it's about time to update my character tier list with a brand new thread, and then throw in a bunch of new information just for kicks. I've been asked to update it too, so I really see no reason not to.

The list will be similar to the old one, but a few of the rankings have changed. In addition, I will include a brief description of each character type's pros and cons after the short list (likely in a second post if there's a post length limitation of some sort).

I know a lot of people are bound to flip out when they see a few of the rankings, especially those Green Knight fans. Let me just clarify that none of the characters are so weak that you can't succeed with them (although I really wouldn't recommend Iceskimo or anyone in Low Tier).

So, without further ado...

_____ ____ ___ __ _

[THE NEW LIST]

Key: Rank) Character Name (pros listed here; cons listed here)

Significant Advantages are in bold.

Significant Disadvantages are in italics.

DoT refers to Damage over Time, often linked to Fire or Poison spells.

RTY, Air RTY and RTB refer to the button combos for the related spells.

The term "Air/RTY" is shorthand for Air RTY & RTY.

God Tier:

1) Red Knight (RTY Stunlocks; lowest XXXY damage)

2) Blue Knight (XXXY/ALL Magic Freezes, Air RTY=RTY; 4x Air/RTY mana cost, low XXXY damage)

3) Fencer (Buzzsaw RTY; no cons)

3) Industrialist (Buzzsaw RTY; no cons)

Top Tier:

4) Brute (Root RTY; no cons)

4) Snakey (Root RTY; no cons)

5) Fire Demon (1x Magic DoT; no cons)

6) Skeleton (no pros; no cons)

7) Alien (3x magic cast rate, 1x magic DoT on RTY; Limited Weapons)

*8) King (Healing RTY; RTY does no damage)

Mid Tier:

9) Green Knight (3x Magic DoT; gimp YY, low XXXY damage)

10) Orange Knight (1x Magic DoT; low XXXY damage)

11) Conehead (Bombs; Arrows)

11) Royal Guard (Bombs; Arrows)

12) Gray Knight (Bombs; Arrows, lowest XXXY damage)

13) Bear (Tornado RTY; RTY can be blocked/broken)

13) Saracen (Tornado RTY, Gust RTB; RTY can be blocked/broken)

Low Tier:

*14) Ninja (no pros; gimp RTY range/speed)

*15) Barbarian (no pros; "Arrow" RTY)

*16) Killer Beekeeper (no pros; Bee RTY)

17) Civilian (no pros; Arrow RTY)

17) Gray Knight 2 (no pros; Arrow RTY)

17) Peasant (no pros; Arrow RTY)

17) Stoveface (no pros; Arrow RTY)

17) Thief (no pros; Arrow RTY)

Hall of Shame (he's really that bad):

99) Iceskimo (RTY Freezes; Air RTY != RTY, 4x Air/RTY mana cost, all except Ground RTY DO NOT FREEZE)

(Did you catch that? Despite Icey's Air RTY being no different than a throwing knife, it still costs 4x as much to cast!)

_____ ____ ___ __ _

And now, for the new section of the Tier List...

[iN-DEPTH REVIEW OF EACH CHARACTER]

UPDATE!

1) Red Knight: Red and Blue are the two best characters in the game, and it's because they possess what no other character has: Crowd Control. Red does so with his RTY since it has the ability to stunlock anyone that gets caught inside it while channeled. This means that Beefies and unjugglable enemies (like Royal Guard/Stoveface) can still be brought down with the quickness. What does Red trade for this? Damage from his XXXY combo. A worthy sacrifice indeed.

UPDATE!

2) Blue Knight: Blue's crowd control is in the form of a fire-and-forget Freeze ability. Every magic move he has can freeze, even his XXXY. His XXXY (although also lacking in damage) is particularly effective against Beefies and unjugglable enemies since you can just spam it over and over, repeatedly freezing them until they die (assuming none of your friends interfere with arrows). You'll also have no problem freezing everyone and then reviving an ally. Sadly, his RTY is too expensive to use as a damage source, a drawback Red doesn't have to deal with.

I suppose the Red vs. Blue debate is mostly preference. Both XXXYs lack in damage. Both have crowd control. Red does so by channeling a damage spell. Blue does so by using an expensive freeze or spamming a neverending XXXY. Either way, you're making a good choice by picking one of them as your main character.

3) Fencer/Industrialist: Fencer and Industrialist are a step ahead of the pack due to their Buzzsaw RTYs. These saws will completely obliterate every boss in the game in a matter of seconds since each saw hits more than once. Sadly, it's not too potent against normal enemies, but such is the price to pay for 3-second boss fights.

4) Brute/Snakey: Bumping Brute and Snakey above the other Top Tier characters was mainly due to a discovery in the difference between Root RTYs and Pillar RTYs. Although it doesn't have a DoT, Roots tend to hit more often per cast since they are closer together than Pillars and hit in pairs. In other words, Roots can hit 6 times in a situation where Pillars would hit 4 or 5 times, and Roots can hit 4 times in a situation where Pillars would only hit 3 times. It won't beat Fen or Indy against bosses, but it's still a better overall choice when compared to Pillar users.

5) Fire Demon: He's not the best character in the game, but he's my favorite... probably since the wings compliment my playstyle (cheesing YYX in mid-air). He uses Pillars as an RTY instead of Roots, but all of his magic has a DoT effect. Not as effective against bosses, but better against normal enemies. A solid choice.

6) Skeleton: Ol' Skelly is no different than Fire Demon with the exception that his magic is non-elemental and doesn't have a DoT (similar to Brute/Snakey). This means that he can use his magic against any enemy without worrying about whether or not they're resistant to it, unlike Fire Demon who has to worry about Fire resistances. Not too shabby.

7) Alien: Alien Hominid is one of the more unique characters in the game. All of his magic casts three times faster, which makes it killer against bosses... until you run out of mana. Also, his RTY is unique in that it's basically a Super RTB with a DoT effect and splash. In exchange for this powerful spellset, he gives up the ability to choose from the vast array of weapons our other heroes have access to. It's tough to give that up, but he's still a Top Tier character.

UPDATE!

8) King: Red and Blue are Gods for their control. Fen and Indy are Gods for their boss-killing saws. King could have been a God for his healing if it was a stronger heal. Right now, it's great in Arena if you're good at running, and it's good in Normal Mode since you don't get hit for more than you heal.

For Insane Mode, though? It has too many limitations. The healing radius is small (about the size of King's character), it only heals for 12-17, you can't move while casting it, you can only cast it 10 or so times per mana bar, and most importantly, you're giving up your damage RTY for it. Your best bet is to just keep him for Arena or bring him out if 3 of your friends need a healbot.

9) Green Knight: Green Knight is the leader in the Mid Tier section due to his unrivaled Poison DoT spells. Unlike Fire spells, Poison ticks 3 times instead of once, which adds up if you're willing to let it run its course. Greenie's fatal flaw is that he has the absolute worst YY combo in the game, which completely cripples his melee game and airborne mobility. He must use the standard and much slower YXXXX juggle instead of the faster YYXX juggle. In addition, he cannot reliably use the A+X=>YYX combo to stay airborne, which is a mainstay in Arenas and a nice little trick you can use to move during cutscenes. Simply put, a DoT doesn't make up for other weaknesses (the same reason why Brute/Snakey are above Fire Demon).

UPDATE!

On a side note, I'd like to say that I personally consider Green Knight to be tied with Iceskimo for worst character in the game, but this is mostly due to my playstyle which relies heavily on more complex infinite juggles, ones that Greenie simply CANNOT do. If your playstyle isn't heavy on melee juggles, this guy is for you.

10) Orange Knight: The Big Orange is the weakest of the four starting characters, but he's still a Mid Tier competitor. His Fire XXXY is much weaker than Fire Demon's Piercing XXXY (which means Orange Knight is outright inferior), but beyond that, OK packs enough of a punch to stay on par.

11)Conehead/Royal Guard: These guys are rather unorthodox. Although they have the quite horrible Arrow RTY (which is more or less the weakest type in Story Mode), they pack the all-powerful Bomb RTB/Air RTY. These bad boys' RTBs are best-in-class since they have a Fire DoT, have a lower trajectory and trail on the ground if you don't get a direct hit. Top Dogs in Arena without a doubt, but somewhat lacking for Insane Mode attempts....

12) Gray Knight: Gray Knight's fate is similar to that of Orange Knight in that he is inferior to another character. His Normal XXXY is much weaker than Conehead & Royal Guard's Piercing XXXY. The only XXXY that is worse is Red Knight's, which is susceptible to Lightning resistances.

On a side note, Open-visor Gray Knight's magic is not Bombs/Arrows/Normal XXXY, but is instead the standard Knife/Arrows/Piercing XXXY. This moves him down into Low Tier category with "The Arrow Guys". Additionally, the official in-game name for him is actually Gray Knight 2.

UPDATE!

13) Bear/Saracen: Bear and Saracen are Mid Tier characters with a twist. Like the King, they trade their damage RTYs for something else, but this time it's for a Tornado. This move (which also takes their Air RTY) is a Tornado. Strangely, the Tornado's damage is based on the character's Strength (which also means that you have to use it when Evil Wizard is in his Red Shield, not Blue). Magic only increases the Tornado's duration.

Bear keeps the standard bullet RTB, but Saracen goes a step further by trading his for a Gust RTB. This move operates more like a splash RTY, but it doesn't do great damage. Instead, it knocks the opponent airborne quite a distance, enough to start a juggle if you can nail the timing. I've yet to decide if this makes Saracen better or worse than Bear, so I'll just leave them tied for now.

UPDATE!

After much contemplation, I've decided to move Ninja into Low Tier and reorganize a few of the rankings inside it. Every character here has an undesirable RTY that nevertheless has a niche of sorts. I've updated all of their descriptions to describe the intricacies of each of their RTYs.

14) Ninja: Ninja's RTY can be best labeled with the phrase "late-bloomer." It is quite capable of dealing good damage per cast since each puff is closer together than most other RTYs... but that makes it a double-edged sword; since it's closer together, it has a smaller max range and requires you to be "all up ons" to get the full effect. It also takes about three seconds for the last puff to, well, poof. If you can deal with the drawbacks, it's not so bad... but there are better choices.

15) Barbarian:Barbarian's RTY is similar to the Arrow RTY with the exception that it's not arrows at all. Instead, weapons fall from the sky, and from two directions to boot. It tends to land somewhat faster than arrows do, which makes it a bit more reliable, but beyond that it isn't spectacular.

16) Killer Beekeeper: Who is the Killer Beekeeper? A Beekeeper that Kills? A Keeper of Killer Bees? A Beekeeper so good at his job that you could say he's "Killer" at being a Beekeeper? And what's with the Rat Beating Bat? Why not a Bee Beating Bat? The English language never ceases to be ambiguous in nature, I suppose... but I digress.

KB's RTY is atrocious at crowd control. Unlike any other RTY, each part of his RTY is capable of hitting only one enemy once. To illustrate, if an entire wave of enemies is in one pot and you cast your RTY, your bees will knock down a whopping one enemy. The bees are also rather spread out, so you won't hit a boss that many times per cast. That said, these bees are killer at knocking enemies out of the air, a nice little advantage in Arenas. KB is a niche character; he serves a purpose, but he's not too killer for anything else.

17) The Arrow Guys: Civilian, Gray Knight 2, Peasant, Stove Face and Thief... all five possess this rancorous RTY, capable of little else than tickling opponents two or so seconds after casting it. The arrows fall down in batches of three, and it takes about three seconds for all of the arrows to land (making it similar to Ninja's RTY). Since it's so slow, it's not spectacular at hitting anything that's airborne either. If you have a thing for Arrows, you can do better by picking Conehead or Royal Guard... at least they have Bombs.

Excluded from the Tier List and put in his own corner, is this guy.

99) Iceskimo: Iceskimo the Eskimo had potential, he really did. He was the second of the two ice magic users, and Blue Knight, as you can see, is in the God Tier. How is it possible that the other Ice-user is the worst character in the game? Simple: they messed up the stats for his magic.

Like Blue, Iceskimo's Air RTY costs 4 times as much. Unlike Blue, his Air RTY is just a snowball that doesn't freeze enemies at all. His RTB, XXXY and Magic Jump are also unable to freeze enemies. What you're left with is only having one ability that freezes, this one being the worst one to rely on for crowd control. This was a huge oversight on Behemoth's part, and until it is rectified, Icey simply won't make the cut.

_____ ____ ___ __ _

So, that's about it, so I suppose I should think of something witty to wrap up this opening post... okay, I got something.

Castle Crashers is a game where the balance between characters isn't so bad that picking the wrong one will screw you over completely (an example of a game that can and will screw you over at the scaracter select screen is World of Warcraft). Every single character in CC has the same health pool, the same bow damage and attack speed, and the same melee attacks (except Green Knight, who I hate with a passion). You can beat the game on Insane with Iceskimo all by yourself.

That said, the differences in Magic and XXXYs isn't something you should ignore. They will have a small but nevertheless notable effect on your performance in Insane Mode and Arenas. There's a reason a majority of the top players in the leaderboard use the Industrialist, and there's a reason why Red and Blue Knight have the rep they do in Arena. Don't put yourself at a disadvantage if you don't need to. Play to win.

See you on the frontier,

FenixStryk.

(EDIT: NEW VERSION! Changed a few rankings, updated a few character bios. I marked the significant changes with either a * or the word UPDATE!)

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Guest V0LV0X

haha very helpful :-), i really like the addition of the descriptions of why you placed certain characters at their current spot.

question about the placement of the king, are you taking arena into account here as well? what about just normal/insane game-play? would you still place him that high?

also, Its a shame, i wished that the open visor gray knight at least had a piercing xxxy combo :-/ oh well

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\question about the placement of the king, are you taking arena into account here as well? what about just normal/insane game-play? would you still place him that high?
Arena, he deserves to be that high.

Normal Mode, he deserves to be that high since the damage in that mode isn't ridiculous, so it's not hard to heal whatever comes your way.

Insane Mode?

[PARAGRAPHS REDACTED]

(As of January 19th, 2009, King was moved to the bottom of Top Tier.)

also, Its a shame, i wished that the open visor gray knight at least had a piercing xxxy combo :-/ oh well
I'm going to come clean with this one; I was too lazy to fully test Open-visor and see if anything changed. I have a feeling that he has a piercing and uses throwing knives... if that is the case, however, that makes him Low Tier.

(Gray Knight was later confirmed to be an "Arrow Guy" and was properly lowered.)

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Guest V0LV0X

ya, he uses knives BUT has piercing dmg.... still not as good as bombs tho eh?? lol

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*Rolls down window.* "Oh, Reginald." *You look at me while reading your newspaper.* "I dissagree!" *Speeds off in car.*

In all seriousness this list is dead on. But I could have sworn that the Icekimo had huge XXXY damage. When I was around the 30's, having little in strength, I used that for a 110-130 point damage range. Plus, he owns without the need of tiers.

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In all seriousness this list is dead on. But I could have sworn that the Icekimo had huge XXXY damage. When I was around the 30's, having little in strength, I used that for a 110-130 point damage range.
Indeed it does. However, every single character in the game with the exception of the five original Knights does piercing damage. I'd go even further and argue that Iceskimo's being piercing instead of ice is a weakness, but that's just preference I suppose.

The five knights (all marked with "low/lowest XXXY damage") do the following:

Green Knight: Normal + 3x DoT from poison, susceptible to resistances.

Orange Knight: Normal + 1x DoT from fire, susceptible to resistances.

Blue Knight: Normal + Freezes, susceptible to resistances.

Gray Knight: Normal. No resistances.

Red Knight: Normal damage, no DoT/Freeze, still susceptible to lightning resistances IIRC.

Every other character has a piercing XXXY.

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Id put industrial/fencer as #1 on the tier list...

hes extremely good at killing beefy enemies and the beatles

he kills all the bosses ground based in seconds

his x magic does alot of damage when mixed with y magic

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Hall of Shame (he's really that bad):

99) Iceskimo (RTY Freezes; Air RTY != RTY, 4x Air/RTY mana cost, all except Ground RTY DO NOT FREEZE)

(Did you catch that? Despite Icey's Air RTY being no different than a throwing knife, it still costs 4x as much to cast!)

The ones responsible are here..

The patch did NOT fix the issue with the Iceskimos RT+Y air projectile taking 50% magic....

the devs decided to keep that as it was a design decision. *shrug*

:arrow:

kelly

... Design decision?... that's like saying "I'll leave the King doing 1000 damage from a level 1 cause it's a smart idea.. *huh huh*.... ....

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Id put industrial/fencer as #1 on the tier list...

hes extremely good at killing beefy enemies and the beatles

I disagree, and I'll tell you why.

Scarabs (and Medusa's Mermen) fly after 5 hits. Heavy characters (e.g. Royal Guard, Stove Face) fall down after one hit from an RTY/bow and cannot be juggled. In both cases, one wants to maximize damage per hit/knockdown, which means using the XXXYY combo. The last thing you ever want to do against these character types is use your RTY/bow; all it will do is lengthen the process since it does less damage per hit. This is especially true for Indy/Fen since their saws naturally do less per hit.

Indy/Fen do have a piercing XXXYY, but so does almost every other character. I prefer to think of the ones that don't being at a disadvantage, since piercing is so common.

Beefy enemies fall after four hits. While you can jump and whack Beefies in the face with your melee weapon and do more damage per hit, it's usually not safe or time-effective to do so. In this case, you do want to spam your RTY. Red's RTY stunlocks them via Shock, so you can empty an entire mana bar on them. Blue's RTY freezes them, which means you don't have to worry too much about them falling over (you might even be able to get an XXXYY in). Indy/Fen? Each saw hits for crap damage, which means it's the worst RTY to use on Beefies.

To summarize, Saws suck on Scarabs/Mermen/Heavy chars, and they're not as good as other RTYs against Beefies. What Red/Blue sacrifice in their raw XXXYY damage, they compensate for with CC and RTY utility.

A pet peeve of mine is when people simply refuse to stop spamming their magic or bow on enemies where an XXXYY is better. It makes it impossible to perform the combo since the enemy keeps flying/falling over, thus making things take longer than they need to.

And that's why Red/Blue > Indy/Fen (and why you need to stop spamming your saws, dude. Seriously.)

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A pet peeve of mine is when people simply refuse to stop spamming their magic or bow on enemies where an XXXYY is better. It makes it impossible to perform the combo since the enemy keeps flying/falling over, thus making things take longer than they need to.

And that's why Red/Blue > Indy/Fen (and why you need to stop spamming your saws, dude. Seriously.)

you only played with me one game and i spam the beatles with the saws and usually y attack them before they land. If you've beaten the game with me like fer shazzle i use strategies.. not combo attacks. Yes they do work but when your on say full moon trying x,x,x,y,y and getting pelted every time your trying to setup the combo you die. I dont know how you fend off 20 people attacking you insane mode but xxxyy isnt the way to go. Air attack and spamming jump and x is the best with me and arrows. Arrows keep the magic away and the enemies from jumping at you.

You cannot freeze or shock lock these creatures.. i don't know if you know that or not.

The way you play the game and the way I play the game are completely different.. again I only beat the desert level with you. I tried to get a game going and you didn't want to play.

Fine with me but don't bash me when you havn't played with me long enough

Im just stating the saws do alot more damage then your crediting them for

Not the combos.. they are the best magic for destroying the beatles next to y attacks as they land.

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[...]don't bash me when you havn't played with me long enough

Im just stating the saws do alot more damage then your crediting them for

Not the combos.. they are the best magic for destroying the beatles next to y attacks as they land.

I see my humor is lost in translation from speech to text. *sigh* Don't take offense, friend.

I simply prefer melee since it is more effective hit-for-hit. Do you want to use your RTY when you're outnumbered? Sure, use it to knock a few down. If that's all you're using it for (knockdown, not damage) then yes, Saws are good for that since they stay up longer and have a wider vertical reach.

Beyond that, though, I don't think they're good for non-Bosses since the saws naturally do less damage per hit. They're good against bosses since they're like a machine gun. When enemies flinch, jump or fall down after 4 set hits, you'd rather use 4 rockets than 4 machine gun bullets, no?

IIRC, you can shock/freeze Beefies and Heavy characters, but not Beetles or Mermen. If that's not the case, then feel free to correct me.

I'll update any discrepancies in the list momentarily.

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I personally don't see the blue knight top tier but i don't know his damage etc..

I think the top tier should be this

1# red knight

2# industrial/fencer

3# snakey/brute

reason im saying red knight is #1 is because theres so many normal enemies in the game. He freezes them when he shocks them. You can kill over 10 characters stuck in the shock even more. The range of the shock is pretty wide and its decent depleting the magic. Hes mediocre with the bosses and pits up well vs beefys. Magic doesnt stun beatles/mermen.

ive stated why i like the saw bros... they work well for any enemy or groups of enemies or bosses... their magic is quick and at full magic seams neverending if you spam it with a black mace/beholder. When the enemies go near the area they will automatically fall and when they get up get knocked down again.

They are usefull fighting the beatles and the magic keeps enemies away when used as a defensive magic.

snakey/brute- I find their magic the quickest and the radius is pretty good..

they are the #2nd best choice for killing bosses with full magic stats black mace and beholder. Magic fills up quickly too. Great to use on groups of enemies.

beekeeper- his magic can do multihits when against a wall or object and the enemy is infront of you. The bees will rain straight down rather then horizontal

Barbarian- I don't know if his animations cover more radius then the grey knight clones arrows. I thought it did

some more things to consider

the bee keepers magic hits air born enemies

and the fire demons magic travels up and down steps (not that its a big difference) Im not sure if the skeletons does too...

again i dont know the whole xxxyy combo damage and elements but these are some things to modify the teir with if you try it

almost each character has a little secret

bear and sarecans magic damage the wizard in red bubble form when in tornado and not blue...

sarecans wind magic helps for juggling

icemagic is good for juggling (blue/eskimo)

some characters are better for arena which you havnt stated

some characters have more magic range and magic replenishing range

which you have stated

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[...]don't bash me when you havn't played with me long enough

Im just stating the saws do alot more damage then your crediting them for

Not the combos.. they are the best magic for destroying the beatles next to y attacks as they land.

I see my humor is lost in translation from speech to text. *sigh* Don't take offense, friend.

ok...

I simply prefer melee since it is more effective hit-for-hit. Do you want to use your RTY when you're outnumbered? Sure, use it to knock a few down. If that's all you're using it for (knockdown, not damage) then yes, Saws are good for that since they stay up longer and have a wider vertical reach.

Beyond that, though, I don't think they're good for non-Bosses since the saws naturally do less damage per hit. They're good against bosses since they're like a machine gun. When enemies flinch, jump or fall down after 4 set hits, you'd rather use 4 rockets than 4 machine gun bullets, no?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I understand what your saying but each attack has a purpose...

xxxyy is best when fighing a few weak enemies or a group that is frozen to maximize damage.. a good tatic is freezing them or shocking them then doing the combo or knocking them down then the combo. Its great for finishing them off.

Also using the y juggles is just as effective. But the setup for xxxyy is horrid in insane mode. Especially fighting codeheads with the bombs or even snakeys..

Their magic disrupts everything and you get hurt more.

I find when fighting a group of enemies from both sides.. mashing x and moving the joystick left and right rapidly hits both sides and works wonders..

Fighting beefys.. just jumping straight up and air attack with x works best.. each hit will stop them in their tracks.

Fighting groups of 5 or more... jump and do air combos... the easiest is jump and mash x rapidly and move to the far side of the screen then repeat.

fighting bosses... each boss has a pattern.. its easier with 2 people since one can block while the other attacks

arrow attacks- these are good for juggling enemies and keeping them back

when you have a hawk and a rammy in your group and a full agil shooter you can minimize your damage taken to you. Its the safest way to play insane mode during extreme fights with normal enemies and some of the bosses.

beefing up- magic jumping and using this in the air to beef up then turbo punch can destroy bosses in seconds which normally hassle you

boomerang- the weapon no one uses.. stuns groups of enemies to setup for combo attacks.

blocking - without it youll have a long fight ahead for some of the battles in insane mode

you have to take in account who your fighting/how many your fighting

where you are fighting and what you have to fight against

then you have your orbs.. some characters do we well other orbs and weapons

red knight/saws work best with magic full and weapon/pet magic

the damage increases dramasticly for red knights b magic... does 64 i think.. highest in the game if im not mistaken

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Barbarian- I don't know if his animations cover more radius then the grey knight clones arrows. I thought it did.
That's one of the things I'd like to test further. Ninja got moved up after I tested his RTY and found it to have at least some funcitonality/advantage over Arrows, despite it's slow speed. Maybe Barbarian will be similar in that regard.

As for Beekeeper, I think I stated that his bees hit airborne enemies. If I didn't, I'll add that in. I'm not sure if Pillars hit airborne enemies, though. My gut says no but I haven't tested that.

Oh, and about melee combos. The four keystones I tend to use are:

1) YXXXX. Basic infinite juggle, good for gaining altitude.

2) YYXX. Faster/more effective juggle rotation, but doesn't gain altitude easily. Green Knight can't use this one.

2.5) I feel it should be noted that you shouldn't rely on one juggle roatation, but switch between the two as needed. One helps you gain altitude, the other does more damage. Switch between them on the fly.

3) A+X => YYX. Allows airborne movement without need for whacking an opponent. Especially useful in Arena (by weaving in some Air RTYs) and during cutscenes (since it counters the movement-stopping effect). Also useful in water areas.

3.5) A+X. Mentioned it above, might as well say what it does. It removes the landing delay, and is good for starting combos or attacks, particularly against Beefies.

4) XXXYY. Standard elemental combo with the drill at the end. The drill is particularly effective against bosses (acts similarly to your magic RTY, but hits about 15 times).

...Yup, that's about it.

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you also should try different weapons with xxxyy

for instance will critical weapons do more damage or less?

which ones do criticals easier?

some weapons have elementals...

4 of them.. candle, ice sword, fire sword, light sabre

so if your character does the element already will equiping the item do more damage or effect the elemental attack?

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Barbarian- I don't know if his animations cover more radius then the grey knight clones arrows. I thought it did.
That's one of the things I'd like to test further. Ninja got moved up after I tested his RTY and found it to have at least some funcitonality/advantage over Arrows, despite it's slow speed. Maybe Barbarian will be similar in that regard.

As for Beekeeper, I think I stated that his bees hit airborne enemies. If I didn't, I'll add that in. I'm not sure if Pillars hit airborne enemies, though. My gut says no but I haven't tested that.

---------------------------------------------------------------

no im saying if your next to an object... chest, table, etc...

and there is a enemy beside it and your the beekeeper... use your y magic

the bees will fall in a straight line down rather then vertically

they do alot of damage this way

a easy way to try this is on the conehead castle where theres a bunch of tables and stuff in the way.. simple walk up to one and do the magic... instead of <-----> bees they just fall straight down.

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The Indus and Fencer are best vs heavies. that's where their saws will do multiple hits. On light weights, it's just better to use air combos or ground combos.

The Red Knight is best vs the light weights and the beefies since he can hold them in place.

1 of each of these players will be the best setup for Insane mode. 1 reds deal with light weights and the 1 industrialists deal with the heavies with the saws.

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